Diet
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This post was updated on .
Biblical dietary law can be found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.
Orthodox and Karaite Judaism simply accept these laws as stated. This approach is known as Peshat which means simply accepting the literal meaning of the text. This is not the Mikraites approach. Unlike Judaism, we ask WHY? We do this because we believe that God is reasonable and that God gave us commandments for our benefit, as said in Deuteronomy 6:24, not for God's benefit. God doesn't need benefits. God doesn't need anything from us, so everything God commands is for our own benefit. This means that we can understand the commandments by understanding how they benefit us. So how do the dietary laws benefit us? The explanation of the reason for the dietary laws is perfectly clear in Leviticus 11. It clearly states that certain foods are unclean for us. What kinds of things are prohibited? Pork which had parasites, shellfish which went bad quickly without refrigeration, and animal carcasses which would likely be infected by various things. In other words, the issue here is health. To further confirm this, note that Leviticus 11 begins a long section of the Torah which is all about health laws. Another point is that the Old Testament never mentions a punishment for violating dietary law, and God never punished anyone for violating dietary law. This also supports the idea that dietary law was a health code, not a moral commandment. Now that we know that the dietary laws are for health, we can see that they made perfect sense in biblical times, but they don't make sense today when we have refrigeration and better ways of handling these foods. Pork and shellfish are no longer health risks, so there is no reason not to eat them. Does this mean these laws are now irrelevant? No, the lesson to be learned is that God wants us to avoid unhealthy foods. Today, instead of worrying about pork, we should be worry about all the unhealthy artificial foods in our diet. In a sense, these should be considered "ungodly foods". These are not foods that God ever intended for us to eat. |
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just wondering if we should make a entire list of "ungodly" foods the followers of Biblical Judaism should avoid.
Potato Chips Energy Drinks Sodas Candy chocolates? cakes types of bread? what do you guys think? |
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I'm concerned about food from a health standpoint but not a moral standpoint. And I focus more on the ingredients in food than what type of food it is. For example I don't mind potato chips but as a rule of thumb I avoid things with ingredients that I can't pronounce like "maltodextrin", which I assume is bad but don't know what it actually is. If something is made with simple things like butter, milk, etc, I assume it's okay.
If your concern is with health, then I think a more practical approach would be to focus on promoting good stuff instead of restricting bad stuff. I say this because I assume most things are bad by default and there's no need to list them out. But finding rare healthy and tasty things is much harder. |
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In reply to this post by Peter
It may be worth discussing some concept of "kosher" if we get a few members. My suggestion, based on the book Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder, would be to ban foods that are less than 100 years old.
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This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by fschmidt
An Element is MissingThere is something inherently wrong about your approach: you're not doing this to actually worship YHWH. Otherwise, you would not suggest "there is no reason not to eat them". It is his reputation, his holy name, that you're profaning. By suggesting that pork is okay to eat now, you're doing violence to his law, to his holy things. Erasing the distinctions between "clean and unclean" is right up there with violating his Sabbaths: take one of those things away, and it's no longer YHWH—the Holy God of Israel, the Most High God, who created the heavens and the earth—whom you announce to the world and to each other. You might as well be worshiping yourself. By valuing your own reasonings above YHWH's commands that is exactly what you're doing. To do that is to put oneself—not YHWH and his commands—on the pedestal, as the object of worship (the one whom you submit to as Lord over your decisions, who defines what is prohibited and what is not). "No sense" to man is not "no sense" to YHWH.
His every law preserves his holy reputation (and by extension our holy reputation too). YHWH is a practical God, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to see his reason every single time; we're not in the position to say, "eh... don't obey that one anymore". This is just as much about declaring to the world and to each other that YHWH—the Holy God of Israel—is the one who delivered us from the world and the world's ways. It wasn't some other spirit who saved our bodies, souls and mind; it wasn't some other philosophy. Nor was it our own. Go ahead and eat pork, and you—and your posterity—won't be saved from what's coming in the future. If you think a refrigerator all of a sudden makes pork safe to eat, think again: Not just the ones without a cold box and modern cooking equipment. All who eat them. And this prophecy (Isaiah 66) is yet future because in Isaiah 66 all flesh has come to bow down before him. Pork is still prohibited. Unclean definitions still stand and will stand in the future. God's word, not our own reasoning, consecrates what is food for us. And as long as this earth remains, those commands are in effect. But more importantly, YHWH's every command declares that he is holy, set-apart, distinct, unlike what the pagans worship. Everything about our life should suggest YHWH is God: not me, not you, not the pagans, not the pagan deities, but YHWH. In a world steeped in idolatry—where people worship food, themselves, sex, their job, their prestige, their intelligence, other people, etc—in order for us to be set-apart, and declare YHWH's holiness through our set-apart-ness—a holiness which he defines for us—we cannot live like them, speak like them or eat like them. Adhering to the dietary law, to his definition of things, declares YHWH as a distinctly unique God and declares that you don't worship what the world is worshiping. How does eating pork, like the rest of the world, achieve this? It doesn't. This isn't just about benefiting ourselves, but about guarding his holy name. Once you add or take away, you distort the truth of YHWH.
The moment you add to or take away from his law is the moment you mislead people about who YHWH is. Especially when he keeps reiterating, in prophecy, that these laws still stand. The word of God still consecrates / sets-apart what we eat, what is food. Other Dietary Laws in the TorahI'll be quoting these because you didn't link to them. But also, I suspect that some of these will be totally unknown to you. That said, I would include Genesis 1:29 as another place where YHWH defines food for us (this is before the land was cursed). As for limitations / prohibitions (after the land was cursed and after YHWH chose to reveal himself by setting up a nation consecrated to him, and to him alone), he also gave these outside of Lv 11 and Dt 14:
We cannot eat an animal carcass we found already torn apart by another animal. Nor can we eat "anything found dead" - if we find a rotting carcass of an animal (this includes roadkill in modern times), we cannot eat it. You'd be surprised how many people still do this in America (let alone in the rest of the world). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine Eating fat is prohibited—whether the fat is from an animal you found dead already, or one you slaughtered yourself (even as a sacrifice to YHWH). Fat cannot be eaten. The marbled pieces of fat in meat is one thing (and if I understand correctly, once thoroughly cooked, it melts away); but the fat surrounding the organs is another. We cannot eat it. And eating blood is also prohibited. Disciplinary Action for Violating Dietary LawsCertain dietary laws did have consequences and could get you kicked out of the community (or killed— depends on what "getting cut off" in verse 14 entails).
In Ex 31:14, "getting cut off" entailed having the violater put to death.
Final ThoughtsNeedless to say, to summarize Leviticus as merely a health code denies what it truly is: instructions for how to be distinct from the corrupt world (ergo, commands to be holy). We're suppose to reflect his nature to the world. Obviously, he's going to command things that keep his holy (set-apart) nation thriving if they obey. But benefiting us is just a means to an end; his goal: proving to the pagan world, who once knew God but went astray, "you guys are not worshiping the loving deity that created you, but are wandering after the lusts of your own heart, puffed up by the vain notions of your own mind and his other creations that went corrupt." What better way to demonstrate that than by ensuring your set-apart nation is the one that thrives (if they actually obey what is written), while the others are living based on what pleases their five senses and their imaginations, which doesn't lead to life.
It's like you're putting YHWH off in a corner, and shining a big ol' spotlight on mere man. This play isn't about man; it's about YHWH, and everyone coming to know him. This is about YHWH. Man did not save himself from Egypt. So, stop trying to make this all about man and using God's wisdom merely to be well-off in life.
Thus all the "god wars" happening throughout the Old Testament (i.e. YHWH vs. Dagon; YHWH vs. every single idol in Egypt [river god, sun god, frog god, pharaoh, etc...]: he's putting their idols and demonic spirits to shame. Proving himself to be Most High. Also note that putting Lamb's blood on a doorpost has nothing to do with morality, your definition of it anyway. It has no practicality to it. But putting lamb's blood on the door posts did demonstrate something very important, "I have faith in the Holy God of Israel; not in the pagans, not in the things pagans worship, nor in myself—just YHWH [and obviously the prophets who brought his message to us]". It identified who the moral were. That is why YHWH spared the Israelites. They obeyed even if it didn't make sense; they trusted God wasn't lying to them. Of course, there are certain commands where you can see the practicality of it, but not all of them are like this (and not all of them serve practical purposes). Putting lamb's blood on the doorposts served no practical purpose (as if it could prevent disease from entering a house, no...). There is an entity watching. And he's watching to see who has faith in him or not: are you going to do it his way or yours? will you unashamedly be affiliated with him or not?
Taking his commands, without giving him due credit for who he claims to be and what he claims to be doing with mankind, defeats the whole purpose of this forum: seeking morality. What you're doing is the spirit of plagiarism: I want your writing, and want to benefit from it, but I want nothing to do with you—so let me disassociate a bit and heap up people to come worship me and my thoughts, instead of you. This may sound harsh, but that's exactly what you're doing—not unique to you. Many others have done the same. But for your sake, the well-being of others, and YHWH's holy reputation's sake, turn away from this wickedness and fully turn to him. We will have to face him on judgment day. I can imagine the rage he feels when people put words in his mouth, or withhold words from people which he actually wanted communicated, and that would keep people safe.
Do you want to be responsible for leaving people in danger? All of his commands still protect us. On a related note, He already manifested on earth as the prophets said: It would be blasphemy to call a mere human by such titles as, "Eternal Father" if that human wasn't actually the Most High God, Father of all Spirits, in bodily form. YHWH incarnated. I see you linked to the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) in your opening post, but based on your stance, you don't seem to be a Christian, one who believes in YHWH's incarnation from a woman's womb (a.k.a. in Jesus). YHWH-incarnate didn't teach to do away with God's commands, but to do away with the man-made traditions and interpretations that nullify God's law and prophets. Notice how Jesus said "tradition" to refer to how they interpreted God's commands, an interpretation which in effect kept them from obeying what was written as is. You're falling into this behavior.
For His Glory, a disciple of Yeshua ha'Mashiach, the Word of God, YHWH in the flesh
Joshua 24:15 (WEB)
15 If it seems evil to you to serve Yahweh, choose today whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell; but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahweh.” |
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I will give a longer response later, but I just want to say that I looked up Ezekiel 22:26 in Hebrew and it isn't "my law", it is "my teaching". The difference is important and it is a tragedy that "teaching" is so often mistranslated to "law". The Old Testament is a book for teaching, not a law book. |
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In reply to this post by or7
or7, I only fully read your post today since it is shabbat and I have the time. And having fully read it, I don't want to debate it. You can have your view and I will have mine. I don't want to change your mind, but I would like to explain a few things.
This is really the core of your argument. What I want to explain is that REASON divides into two categories, inductive reason and deductive reason. Inductive reason is to reason about to facts and to say that facts that hold up over time tend to be true. Inductive reason makes reality the source of truth. Inductive reason is the basis of the scientific method as advocated by Galileo and Isaac Newton (both Christians, by the way). Deductive reason is to reason inside your own mind. To purely use deductive reason to arrive at truth about the world is "to put oneself on the pedestal, as the object of worship" as you say. The primary advocate of this curse is Plato. So now we see that there are three means of arriving at truth: there is faith, inductive reason, and deductive reason. Clearly your means is faith while mine is inductive reason, so we will arrive at different conclusions. But to accuse me of putting myself on a pedestal when seeking truth is unfair. I put reality on a pedestal and I consider YHVH to be a force in that reality just as gravity is. You put a book (the Bible) written by men on a pedestal, above reality, which I view as borderline idolatry, but which I am willing to accept if you can tolerate my view. I have no interest in getting you to eat pork. Eat whatever you want to. But my eating pork does not harm you in any way, so I don't see why it should bother you. The purpose of this web site is to encourage people to cooperate based on shared biblical values. We expect people's views to differ on the details which is why we do not specify everything (like the Talmud does). We encourage tolerance of differing views where these differing views do not cause harm to others. Dietary law is a perfect example of this. |
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In reply to this post by fschmidt
I am really torn on pork since I am part ethnically Jewish (very mixed ethnicity) and a Christian. I know it still has parasites, worms etc. in it quite often. But it can be really delicious when properly prepared, which usually means crispy bacon and ideally also brined or koshered in some way. Also I live in east Asia (Taiwan) and they eat pork all the time here. The Chinese character for "house" is "pig" under a "roof" even.
I do agree with you about eating healthy in general! This will seem random but today I finished one of my long term projects, a sous vide cooker composed of an arduino controlled relay and a simple hot pot. The arduino also has a waterproof thermometer that measures the water temperature and turns the hot pot on when it gets below the target temperature. It cooks some amazing foods. I don't actually sous vide in it because the plastic usually used will leech into the food. Plastic leakage is associated with higher estrogen levels, which probably is what causes women to mature more quickly these days and might even be related to things like radical feminism and an increase in female promiscuity, or the apparent rise in effeminate men. Although I digress -- plastic bad. What I do is put the food into a glass mason jar and fill that with water. Then I put that within the water that's already there. This has many advantages since you only have to wash out a small mason jar instead of the whole pot. I'm into things like this lately and it's what my name is a reference to, hacking things in the spirit of distributism. My next project is a soil humidity sensor for in-door farming, I'm hoping to get around some corrosion issues in some way, and to build my own segway. Supposedly segways are actually pretty easy to build. |
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In reply to this post by fschmidt
I remembered reading some news a couple years ago that were linking iron to Alzheimer's disease, so I looked it up. According to some findings, the consumption of both iron supplements and red meats can accelerate iron accumulation in the brain, which leads to an earlier onset of the disease: http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-study-suggests-that-iron-247864
http://www.intelligentpeopleforum.com
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